PSYCHOANALYTIC COMMENTS

OCCASIONAL COMMENTS ON PSCHO-ANALYTIC MATTERS + CONTIBUTIONS fromMICHAEL ROLOFF Member Seattle Psychoanalytic Institute and Society this LYNX will LEAP you to all my HANDKE project sites and BLOGS: http://www.roloff.freehosting.net/index.html "MAY THE FOGGY DEW BEDIAMONDIZE YOUR HOOSPRINGS!" {J. Joyce} "Sryde Lyde Myde Vorworde Vorhorde Vorborde" [von Alvensleben]

Wednesday, March 12, 2014

A COMMENT ON Ivey's "ENACTMENT CONTROVERSIES"






    •  

      • A COMMENT ON Ivey's "ENACTMENT CONTROVERSIES"
      •  
      •  
      • Gavin Ivey’s précis:
      • “This critical review of the current disputes concerning counter-transference enactment systematically outlines the various issues and the perspectives adopted by the relevant psychoanalytic authors. In the light of this the ‘common ground’ hypothesis concerning the unifying influence of contemporary Counter-transference theory is challenged. While the existence of enactments, minimally defined as
      • the analyst's inadvertent actualization of the patient's transference fantasies, is widely accepted, controversies regarding the specific scope, nature, prevalence, relationship to countertransference experience, impact on the analytic process, role played by the analyst's subjectivity, and the correct handling of enactments abound. Rather than taking a stand based on ideological allegiance to any
      • particular psychoanalytic school or philosophical position, the author argues that the relative merits of contending perspectives is best evaluated with reference to close process scrutiny of the context, manifestation and impact of specific enactments on patients’ intrapsychic functioning and the analytic relationship. A detailed account of an interpretative enactment provides a context for the author's position on these debates.” Gavin Ivey’s

      • By definition, the analytic position  is of itself an enactment!, n’est pas?... which during the course of time will elicit responses, that will elicit counter-responses, Thus, the discipline’s original sin! The ancient position of the patient as scientific object; that is,  arrogance.
      •  
      • The patient is made responsible to introducing –  I love the word – an “introject” into the analyst, and the analyst’s, it so appears, wish is to be immune, or is supposed to be immune to such intrusions. - But what if the analytic relationships, the way it is conducted,  by definition of its abnormalcy (quiet analyst for analyzands to start listening to what pours out of them; asymmetrical educationally;  if on the couch in a regressive position,  the analyst supposedly empathically sinking with him, etc) assures such enactments? That is, that there may be a fundamental flaw in the analytic attitude if  as intense a relationship as a flourishing analytic one is subjected to it ? That there is something fundamentally inhuman and arrogant (though arrogance itself of course is the most human? Find me an arrogant animal???) in treating the patient as scientific object. By definition, arrogance and its wages ruins relationships, of all kinds.  
      •  
      • Behind the controversy seems to reside the analytic communities' wish to remain in control and the fear of a/ the real that exists in as intense a relationship as a flourishing analytic one – where analyst and analysand when going is good can grunt to each other like comfy pigs in their sty.   
      •  
      • Many of the questions raised – the good or bad of enactments - are on the "make work" order, are strictly situational or contextual, and thus  inaccessible to theory.
      •  
      • For a great example of an enactment that an in many ways superb analyst brought on himself with the arrogance of thinking that he could lie about not knowing German, to someone who was as proficient in both English and German as I, also as a poetic translator, I link to
      • http://analytic-comments.blogspot.com/2009/07/trapping-trapper-crucial-event-from.html

    • What his eneactment proved to me, ultimately, was our extraordinary closeness, which he wasted!

    • After joining SPSI through the sponsorship of David Spain in the mid-90s, I made pleasant acquaintance with Dr. George “Mike” Allison, who, however, shied away from discussing the TRAPPER piece. Not so the analyst I am closest to here, name-coz Leland Roloff, who heads the Jungian crew, who pointed out that not only was the intention of this dream for the analyst to divulge that in fact he did know German, but that the dream also expressed the longing for a protective instead of a hurtful father. I then could not agree more although I had been entirely unaware of that of the dream’s dimensions.

    • The dream was dreamt during a repeat of an abandonment experience of age 9 month, matters were stormy, the analyst had withdrawn into a position of saying that he could no longer discern what was going on through the storm clouds (i.e. would/ could no longer “hold” me, something that elicited a gritty resolve response in me), I was feverish, I was demylenating, losing weight.

    • The poem itself had been learned with a dozen other Goethe poems appr. 25 years prior during senior year in college from and for a good father figure, the Goethe professor Harry Pfund, a class that was conducted at his home over coffee and cake! (If you had asked me in the early 80s whether I remembered any of these poems I would have definitely said no, as I say now. Heirlooms in the memory vaults that awaken! I probably knew the Fischer-Diskau setting from even earlier. The landscape of the poem, the willow trees were was that of my childhood.)

    • - I only write symbolically! And that is all I want to suggest as to the improvement of Central Europe. Disclosure comes gradually or quickly. Perhaps some relationships want to remain entirely impersonal, so be it. I happen to prefer warmth, probably because of that aboriginal trauma, although I was able to suffer through the Fram being crushed in pack ice. Saying that obviates at least one long essay! 

Friday, September 13, 2013

Comments on Shierry Nicholson's “Now it looks at me"




Below find a few comments of mine

on 

Shiery NIcholson's wonderful paper


“Now it looks at me":

 Aesthetic Experience and the Work of Psychoanalysis”

And if you have the interest do not fail to check out her extraordinary

Exact Imagination, Late Work
On Adorno's Aesthetics
where she also demonstrates, uniquely, how Benjamin’s thought was absorbed by Adorno.
x
Michael Roloff
Member SPSI

========================

SPSI SCIENTIFIC SESSIONS
Tuesday, September 17, 2013, 7:30 PM – 9:00 PM

Presenter: Shierry Nicholsen, Ph.D., F.I.P.A.
“’Now it looks at me’: Aesthetic Experience and the Work of Psychoanalysis”

Presentation Abstract: ,,We often sense that there is something aesthetic in our psychoanalytic work. This paper attempts to find the basis for that feeling by exploring the commonality of aesthetic experience and the work of psychoanalysis.  The paper elaborates a series of key metaphors for processes at work in both aesthetic and psychoanalytic experience: face, field, enigma, rhythm, metaphor, and configuration, weaving together formulations drawn from psychoanalysts, artists and theorists of aesthetics.,, ,,Biography: ,,Shierry Weber Nicholsen is a psychoanalyst and psychotherapist in private practice on Capitol Hill in Seattle.  She did her analytic training at the Northwestern Psychoanalytic Institute (NPS) in Seattle and is on the faculties of both NPS and SPSI.  She is the author of Exact Imagination, Late Work: On Adorno's Aesthetics (MIT Press, 1997).

Discussant: Oscar Romero, M.D.
The Canvas, The Couch and The Mental Space: On Shierry Nicholsen’s Paper “ ‘Now It Looks at Me’...”
=============================================================
  • Comments on Shierry Nicholson’s
    Now It Looks at Me
    First, let me congratulate Shierry Nicholson on a wonderful dialectical figuration of a commonality of the analytic and the aesthetic. What pivot! I am amazed, I, this most critical of beasts, has not one quibble. Yet, I want to add three observations after calling attention to one of my favorites
    Shierry’s
    Exact Imagination, Late Work
    On Adorno's Aesthetics
    where she demonstrates, uniquely, how Benjamin’s thought was absorbed by Adorno.
    ==========================================
    (1) My initial comment concerns an aesthetic experience I had prior to psycho-analysis.   As the first translator and director of Peter Handke's plays I had no idea what to expect when an audience undergoes these non-naturalistic texts, first of PUBLIC INSULT/ OFFENDING THE AUDIENCE - so I was quite pleased when a New York analyst came up to me after we had done it at the Goethe House in the late 60s and said the audience had had one hour of the best kind of group analysis consciousness raising. Well that's what it was for sure, among any other matters that this very activist piece does. KASPAR, (“I want to be someone like somebody else was once!”) a participatory speech torture, then indeed, can induce the pain of learning language and the search for an identity in an audience.                               However, I had no idea what to expect from a performance of THE RIDE ACROSS LAKE CONSTANCE. I had translated it, it is a play that consist of dialogue of the most absurd kind, the kind of questions posed analogous to Wittgenstein’s Philosophical Investigations but transferred into the Lebenswelt

    "George: And have you ever heard of a "fiery Eskimo"
    Jannings: Not that I know
    George: If you don't know it, then you haven't heard of it either. But the expression "a flying ship" - that you have heard?
    Jannings: At most in a fairy tale.
    George: But scurrying snakes exist?
    Jannings: Of course not.
    George: But fiery Eskimos - they exist?
    Jannings: I can't imagine it.
    George: But flying ships exist?
    Jannings: At most in a dream.
    George: Not in reality?
    Jannings: Not in reality.
    pause
    George: But born losers?
    Jannings: Consequently they exist.
    George: And born trouble makers?
    Jannings: They exist.
    George: And therefore there are born criminals.
    Jannings: It's only logical.
    George: As I wanted to say at the time...
    Jannings: [interrupts him] "At the time"? Has it been that long already?
    George [hesitates, astonished] Yes, that's odd! [Then continues rapidly] Just as there are born losers, born troublemakers, and born criminals, there are [he spreads is fingers.] born owners. Most people as soon as they own something are not themselves any more. They lose their balance and become ridiculous. Estranged from themselves they begin to squint. Bed wetters who stand next to their bed in the morning. [The bed signifies possession. Or perhaps their shame?] [brief moment of confusion, then he continues at once]. I, on the other hand, am a born loser: only when I possess something do I become myself...
    Jannings: [interrupts him] "Born owner" I've never heard that expression.
    pause
    George: [suddenly] "Life is a game..." You must have heard people say that?
    P. 77
    George: Only one thing I don't understand. Of what significance is the winter evening to the story? There was no need to mention it, was there? [Jannings closes his eyes and thinks] Are you asleep?
    Jannings: [opens his eyes] Yes, that was it! You asked me whether I was dreaming and I told you how long I sleep during the winter nights and that I then begin to dream toward morning and as an example I wanted to tell you a dream that might occur during a winter night.
    George: Might occur?
    Jannings: I invented a dream. As I said, it was only an example. the sort of thing that goes through one's head... As I said - a story?
    George: But the kidneys flambe?
    Jannings: Have you ever had kidneys flambe?
    George: Not that i know.
    Jannings: If you don't know, then you haven't had them....
    Von Stroheim: Did you dream about it?
    Porten: Someone mentioned it in a dream [she hands the pin to Bergner] When I saw the pin just now, I membered it again. And I had thought about it as also just another word.
    George: Once someone told me about a corpse with a pinhead-sized wound on his neck [pause] [to Jannings] did you tell me about that?
    Absurdist, playful, very dream-play inducing, some of it may remind of Ionesco. However what is absurd is/ are the reasonable questions put in ordinary so-called rational language rational syntax and what I want to emphasize is that this sort of thing goes on a continuous basis for an hour and a half.  The audience revolted because they did not have the strap of a story to hang on to. They did not catch on to the fact that this was a HAPPENING, but a highly formalized one, an EXPERIENCE that DID something to their MINDS. that I would say had a DISSOCIATIVE effect – and in that respect it resembles the dissociative effect of the asymmetrical analytic situation
     I myself came out transported into a deliciously cleansed state of mind (and thus kept going back during the five week run for at least a ten minute hit!), in fact of a kind I would not experience again until I entered analysis and started having what are called a "good hour", and until I experienced the only other Handke play that I know has this same (non-Aristotelian) cathartic dissociative effect, "The Hour We Knew Nothing of Each Other" (which consists of an hour and a half of changing images) - although Handke’s "The Art of Asking" may have a similar overall effect, but I have only read that. But these effects are not to be had in the reading, only in the experiencing. – As in the analytic situation which itself, for the very position in which analyst and analysand find themselves find themselves is of itself dissociative.
    Out of the darkness of the experience, out of the enigma shines the light… after a long series that works also on the fundamental phenomeonological neurological and kinesthetic level.
    Volume I of the Collected Plays
    ===========================================
    (2) There is that MOMENT isn’t there at which what Shierry calls the FACE is recognized, where one recognizes one’s self.  This may involve something as momentous as what Lacan called, perhaps too portentously, “the stage des miroir” – however, at whatever stage it occurs it is a moment of crystallization, and it is epiphanic – and once it passes the

     
    result becomes enigmatic. – I don’t know which if any Paul Klee image Shierry has mind, but I want to suggest that Klee who specialized in the most playful of self-portraits – most famously perhaps his (above) Angelus Novus – reaches a/the moment(s) when he signed off on these self-portraits. Perhaps he himself regarded them as what Benjamin called “death masks of an experience.”
    (Although I read his notebooks many years ago, I am merely positing something of that kind here.) It was done. Later he would have the urge, playful, or serious, playfully serious, to do another. Moments such as that occur not only between an artist and his work, but also in the analytic situation. And one can of course deconstruct them, and that is always interesting, but the summa will remain enigmatic in the way that Shiery has defined the navel – although I suggest that the navel, the source, has become more penetrable since Freud wrote those famous words. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klee_Notebooks   https://www.google.com/search?q=paul+klee+paintings&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=910&bih=428&dpr=1&bvm=pv.xjs.s.en_US.CQsooEYev9Y.O&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=5vcxUv__D4PgiwKe54CwDQ
    =========================================
    (3) Shierry mentions that she regards Adorno a mentor, and so do I, although I had a few others by the time I came on Adorno in the early 60s: Karl May (!), Shakespeare, Joyce (I noticed in writing some prose poems how I fell into pacing the way Joyce does.),   Faulkner, Kafka, Brecht, Lukacs, Marx, Pound, Goethe, Flaubert. The most impressive, Freud, awaited me in the 80s. In the late 60s I had prepared an Adorno Reader in collaboration with the author, and with an introduction by Susan Sontag, and if Shierry and Sammy Weber had been as proficient as she became later as an Adorno translator someone, a truly vile person at Farrar Straus, would not have been in the position to find and excuse for killing that project after I left that firm in 1969, and it would have made a real difference to have an Adorno Reader published in that fashion at that time. Later, at Continuum Books I did several Adorno titles, but as co-publisher of Urizen Books only a Frankfurt School Reader since the working partner had had a run in with Adorno in Frankfurt..                                     I know or at least knew most of Shierry’s references, although more sharply at one time than I do now. They hover in the background as I complete a big novel that has two analysts as narrators, one ancient Austro-American somewhat paraplegic, the other the very mobile fictitious daughter of Wilhelm Reich.
 
 


--
This is the e-mail address associated with 
Michael Roloff's  [as "Psycho.Physiker"]

Monday, November 19, 2012

OFFENER BRIEF AN DEN JUEDISCHEN ZENTRAL RAT ETC.





 


Ich schreibe ihnen, teile mit ihnen meine Überlegungen, meinen Blödsinn und Nicht-Blödsinn
über die Brit Milah, die Beschneidung, über anti-Semitismus
und dem Verhältnis zwischen Juden und Deutschen, und bitte sie alle um Entschuldigung meines etwas unbeholfenen Auswanderer Deutsch wegen.

Erstens einiges zur Beschneidung.
 Was meines Erachtens in dem ganzen Palaver über die Beschneidung fehlt - hier das Archiv für diese Debatte, die jetzt in die USA über geschwappt ist, auch weil die Praxis des metztizah b’peh in New York die Zustimmung  über Gefahren informierten Eltern erfordert werden soll und die Mohels sich dagegen wehren... und Mayor Bloomberg befürchtet von 10,000 schwarzen Hüten die auf und ab hüpfen am New Yorker Mayor’s Office heimgesucht zu warden! Es hat schon seine Komik was hier alles zusammentrifft! Ein Ober-Rabbiner namens Metzger fährt nach Deutschland um die Metzgerei an Saueglingen weiter zu erlauben als das Kölner Gericht es verbietet!
ist die archäologische Dimension. Woher stammt der Brauch der dem der Weiblichen Beschneidung-Verstümmlung gleicht in dem er die selben Nerven durchschneidet und die dementsprechende Häute abschneidet? Weder der Ritus noch der Brauch sind nur in, bei Abrahamistischen Religionen, Stämmen vorzufinden, aber auch bei Afrikanischen, z.b. die Zhosa, noch jetzt. Bei anderen, auch bei denen die die weibliche Beschneidung praktizieren, ist er aber genau so verpönt wie es schon bei den Römern und Griechen der Fall. 

Woher stammt dieser Brauch der in der Torah als Kern der Jüdischen Religion betrachtet wird. Die Jüdische Religion, jedenfalls die die sich auf die Torah beruft, braucht einen Kern, brauchte einen, und nahm die Beschneidung als sakral, als notwendig und hat eine Zeremonie dafür. Es hat diesen Kern verteidigt gegen die Römer und wen noch, jetzt gegen eine Regel des Deutschen Grundgesetzes, zu einer Zeit aus notwendigem Trotz einer Macht gegenüber, die aber wohl gefährlicher war als das so schöne Deutsche Nachkriegs Grundgesetz.
  Dass sich diese Identität erhalten hat - kaum was anderes macht mich glücklicher! Genau so wie jeden Tag den ich an die Shoah denke mein ganzer Körper sich in eine weinende Wunde verwandelt.
Aber könnte es bessere Arten geben Jüdische Identität zu erhalten? Und sollte man solche beleidigende Kompromisse wie der vorgeschlagene Gesetzentwurf annehmen, die von Schuld weichgemachten, zuvorkommenden Politikern stammen?

Also, noch mal, woher stammt der Brauch - jedenfalls nicht von 10 tausend Jahre alten Gedanken über Hygiene, auch damals wusste man schon was waschen ist. Und Juden und dieser Brauch sind nicht von einem Stern oder Planeten irgendwann in dem was wir jetzt den Mittleren Osten nennen in einem Spaceship gelandet. Die Jüdische Religion, der Jüdische Stamm hat sich aus anderen entwickelt, Separation/ Individuation Differenzierung heißt das auf individueller Basis, das Sonderfeld der Analytikerin Margaret Mahler,  eine Individuation die nur gefordert und möglich wird wenn eine uniforme Masse zu massenhaft wird. Jedes Dorf ein Stamm, jedes Dorf seine Stamm Götter! Jeder dieser Stämme oder Völker hatte dann seine eigenen Götter, eine Differenzierung in dem die Menschen individuelle Qualitäten wieder erkennen, oder die wieder gespiegelt wird. Benennen.

Der Brauch stammt ab von dem Opfertod des erst-geborenen Sohns - welche Gefahr bedeuten Söhne für die Väter? Kastration war danach erschreckender, züchtiger und im gewissen Sinn vernünftiger, man hatte einen gezähmten Sohn, und erschreckende/s Vorbild [er]. Unter anderem ist das Brit Milah das Überbleibsel dieses zivilisierenden Versuchs die Fortpflanzung ohne allzu viel Zeter und Mordio zu vollziehen. Ein Vorhaut wird geopfert, man bezeichnet dies als Kompakt - ein Kompakt der bedeutet das der Gottvater das Kind dafür nicht tötet, nicht als ganzes opfert. [Inwiefern ….der für die Haredim in New York so wichtige Nebenbrauch des
metztizah b’peh nur hygienisch und lindernd gemeint war, sei dahingestellt. Auch er könnte ähnlich dunkle Herkünfte wie die Brit Milah haben.] An diesem Punkt ist die Entwicklung in der Jüdischen Religion, bei einer ihrer Sekten, stecken-geblieben - dass die Brit Milah so 5000 Jahre Brauch ist spricht weder für noch gegen diesen Brauch der auch nicht spezifisch oder exklusiv Jüdisch ist, weder ist es der Oedipus Komplex, dem man nur in das Avunculate ausweichen kann.
Und ich frage mich, wie steht's eigentlich mit der Identität der Jüdischen Mädchen? Oder, um es historisch auszudrücken: seit wann wurden Jüdische Mädchen, im Vergleich zu anderen Angehörigen der u.a. Abrahamistischen Religionen, nicht mehr beschnitten? Glauben auch Sie, liebe Frau Deusel, wahrhaft, dass das Abschneiden der Vorhaut, des sexuell empfindlichsten männlichen Teil, welches außer dem Klitoris dem weiblichen entspricht, und noch dazu 8 Tage nach der Geburt, zu rechtfertigen ist, nur weil die Abrahamistischen Religionen es für ein Identitätstiftendes Ritual halten? Kann man sich nicht andere ausdenken die eigentlich Jüdischer sind?
Later in the 12th century, the Jewish rabbi Moses Maimonides expressed Jewish thinking on the subject. In his The Guide to the Perplexed he says that circumcision is intended to diminish the sex drive, adding "The bodily pain caused to that member is the real purpose of circumcision."[3] and argued that it should be done to newborns because "for up to that time the imaginative form that compels the parents to love [the newborn] is not yet consolidated. For this imaginative form increases through habitual contact and grows with the growth of the child". Maimonides recognized that the true purpose of circumcision is to cause a child to suffer so much that, if not done immediately after birth, the parents would protest on behalf of their child's well-being - and this during the Middle Ages when excruciating pain was quite common.

The modern practice of circumcision, began to spread in English speaking countries in the 19th century[4] as a method of torture used against little boys for masturbation. As Dr. John Harvey Kellogg, a leading proponent of circumcision at the time wrote, "The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases."[5] 


In modern times, religious justifications for circumcision have been replaced by pseudo-secular medical arguments in support of the practice. However, modern medicine has exposed these justifications as simply more mythology. This is why no national or international medical association recommends routine circumcision [6]. There is simply no medical warrant for this surgery. 

Circumcision is Torture
 

It may be tempting to take refuge in the notion that infants can't feel pain. There is no reason to believe this. The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Academy of Family Physicians, and the Canadian Paediatric Society all agree that circumcision is painful to the infant [7][8][9]. There is no reason to believe that circumcision is not experienced as extreme torture by infants. The pain is so horrendous that many babies go into shock and just staring making gurgling noise [10]. These are the lucky ones. Most babies are forced to undergo the torture fully conscious emitting terrifying screams for 6 to 10 minutes (see video). 

In addition to the obvious physical torture, the psychological effects of the torment persist after the procedure. The British Medical Association (BMA) states that "it is now widely accepted, including by the BMA, that this surgical procedure has medical and psychological risks."[11]. Violent predispositions, disrupted infant-maternal trust and bonding [12], and post-traumatic stress disorder[13] are the psychological effects of circumcision. 

Circumcision is Technically Illegal
 


Herr Graumann hat ganz Recht in seiner Rede

http://www.fr-online.de/frankfurt/graumann-in-der-paulskirche-ein-schmerz--der-einfach-nicht-vergehen-will,1472798,20823874.html

Juden gibt es noch, aber keine Babylonier - na ja, es gibt die Iraquis, die Sunni and Schiiten die sich oft bekämpfen, wieder so eine Sekte wo ein Familiendelikt für tausendjahre lange Kämpfe sorgt.  
Liebe Frau Deusel, einige Bemerkungen zu Ihrem Vortrag über die Beschneidung der mir als guter "Einschnitt" in die Thematik vorkommt.

Ich lese dies

A]

Andrea Dernbach liest im Tagesspiegel das hochaktuelle Buch "Mein Bund, den ihr bewahren sollt - Religionsgesetzliche und medizinische Aspekte der Beschneidung" der Rabbinerin und Urologin Antje Yael Deusel, die die Beschneidung trotz möglicher
...http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/perlentaucher-heute-in-den-feuilletons-a-861272.html

B]
Alter Ritus, aktuelle Brisanz
Neue Presse Coburg
Damals, bei diesem ältesten Schriftstück über jüdische Beschneidung, hätte sogar eine Frau die Handlung vornehmen dürfen. Ungewöhnlich war ein solcher Brauch in der Zeit der ägyptischen Großreiche nicht. Viele Volksgruppen hatten im Nahen Osten ...

Alles zu diesem Thema ansehen »

Wenn der so schnell, vorschnell entwickelte Deutsche Bundesregierung Gesetzentwurfvorschlag
[Die Skepsis der Pädiater -
Unausgegoren, katastrophal - die Kritik der Pädiater am Gesetzentwurf zur Beschneidung ist eindeutig. Sie sehen die  UN-Kinderrechtskonvention verletzt - und das Gesetz quasi schon zur Verhandlung in Karlsruhe.]
angenommen wird und das Bundesgericht nichts daran auszusetzen hat, werde ich dann meinen Sohn kastrieren lassen können solang das Verfahren nach "ärztlicher Kunst" geschieht, ditto weibliche Beschneidung, etwas was einigen jetzt schon fordern. – Sie sehen wohin dieses vorschnelle Zuvorkommen hinleitet.  Einen fauleren Kompromiss als diesen Entwurf habe ich seit langem nicht zu sehen bekommen. Sowie es mir vorkommt, unterstützten inzwischen alle Christlichen Obrikeiten die Haredim Orthodoxen, und auch Sie, liebe Frau Deusel, trotz angeblichem medizinischen Studium
 scheinen nicht nur keine blasse Ahnung von Physiognomie Embryologie noch von unterschiedlichen Jüdischen Stellungen und Traditionen zu haben

und versuchen krampfhaft angeblich medizinisch-hygienische Gründe als Stützen für die Mohels ins Feld zu führen.

Lassen Sie sich doch mal selber beschneiden
! garantiert keine Chlamidia, noch Gonorreha, und wohl kaum viel Pläsier! Zunähen lassen die Scheide, nur der Ehemann darf dann dran! Warum nicht alle in die Kloster schicken wenn die Fortpflanzung und das Liebe-machen so gefährlich ist! Skepsis den Medizinern gegenüber ist genau so berechtigt wie für die Priester. Denn es wurde Brauch in England und der USA im 19ten Jahrhundert als die Viktorianischer prüde die Onanie erschwierigen wollten. Stimmt wohl schon, viel weniger Pläsier! Besseres Arbeitstier.

Der Skandal der Debatte ist doch die Tabuisierung jeglichen Vergleichs von männlicher mit weiblicher Genitalverstümmelung. In beiden Fällen wird der empfindsamste und erogenste Teil des menschlichen Körpers amputiert oder schwer beschädigt. In beiden Fällen geht es um die Beschneidung menschlicher Sexualität, um Kontrolle, im Falle der Brit Milah   um das Primat des Vaters über die Söhne, in Fall der Frauen-beschneidung auch um Besitz-erhaltung.


Also, unfortunately it is / has been circumcision that has MADE for no end of irrational anti-semitic, sentiments. Freud found that it was the chief reason for unconscious anti-Semitism, I would have to agree, also from personal experience on which I can elaborate at great length if you like.
  And the myths surrounding the Brit Milah are at the core of the “blood libel.” Thus, it's time to eliminate the Brit Milah because if that is the chief reason for being anti-Semitic or anti-Abrahamic [since Islam, too, practices the rite] then why hang on to this left-over of human sacrifice? that traumatizes the child, a trauma that can be recovered under analysis, cutting off 5,000 nerves, the equivalent of female circumcision in the sense that it eliminates everything but the clitoris, and only serves the Ultra Orthodox to maintain their power? After all, reform Judaism sought to eliminate the rite in the 19th century, it can be simulated, and Jewish identity depends on being born by a Jewish mother, or converting.  Note especially Michael Wolffsohn's two pieces. Circumcision has been controversial also within Jewry forever.

Ich lese Zentralrat Vorsteher Dieter Graumann's
während ich ihm erkläre dass das Grass Gedicht nicht anti-semitisch
aber den Gesetzen des modernen Verifikation entspricht was einige Germanisten, Dederich, Ans, sehr schön bewiesen haben ohne sich mit seiner Meinung zu identifizieren.
Also, wenn man Meinungen bei einer Gedächtnis Rede äussert, vielleicht nicht so wohlfeil? Und nach all diesen Monaten der Grass Kontroverse wieder so plump draufzuhauhen spricht wohl von Faulheit? Die Sensibilität kommt mir eigentlich furchtbar Deutsch vor! Import a media consultant from New York?

Das Gedicht war doch brilliant effektiv! Wer weiß was Grass wirklich damit vorhatte außer sich selbst wieder mal in Licht zu rücken, wie schlau er ist? Jedenfalls auch als telegramartiges Editorial spricht es zwei Motive an bei denen die Lage überhaupt nicht klar liegt - sie liegen, existieren in dem Tageswirbel der Propaganda. Was der Maulheld gesagt soll falsch übersetzt sein lese ich – aber dass dessen Maul bald von zu Hause abgeschlossen wird, davon liest man weniger.
The Israel team considers firing a demonstration nuclear shot, a missile warhead that would explode 100,000 feet over Tehran. Israeli plans since the 1970s have called for doing this as a last-ditch alternative to firing all-out atomic attacks. The blast would shatter windows in downtown Tehran, but it wouldn't kill anyone, or hardly anyone. Surely it would shock Iran into a cease-fire.
Oder Grass dachte an was Amerikanische Bunkerbusting Bomben auf Atomanlagen anrichten können? Ein solches Gedicht hinkt wie die meisten dieser Art – aber es lebt, inwiefern es lebt, von seiner Ambiguität.

Das Archiv dazu:

Jetz mal Doppel Takt, Dieter!


Herrn Netanjahu
The Bible finds no worse image than this of the man from the desert. And why? Because he has no respect for any law. Because in the desert he can do as he pleases. The tendency towards conflict is in the essence of the Arab. He is an enemy by essence. His personality won’t allow him any compromise or agreement. It doesn’t matter what kind of resistance he will meet, what price he will pay. His existence is one of perpetual war. Israel’s must be the same. The two states solution doesn’t exist; there are no two people here. There is a Jewish people and an Arab population… there is no Palestinian people, so you don’t create a state for an imaginary nation… they only call themselves a people in order to fight the Jews.” [1]- Benjamin Netanyahu
der Friedensbedrohung anschuldigen ist wohl eher zahm?  Da braucht man doch nur einige Hauptwörter auswechseln und es hätte im Stürmer gedruckt werden können. Was Grass vollkommen nicht mal anspielt ist das Netanjahu Kettenhund ist der sich auf die Unterstützung der  Neo-Cons des Amerikanischen Imperiums verlassen kann, vielleicht von ihnen angefeuert wird den richtigen Krieg vom Zaun zu brechen. Was waer Israel ohne USA und drei ein halb Milliarden Unterstützung per Jahr – es ist der Hauptstützpunkt des Imperiums im Mittleren Osten. Wie Norman Podhoretz einmal sagte: “America has been good to the Jews.” – Well, it became good to the Jews after WW II – until then: at least no progroms, those were reserved for a different people.

Fritz Stern und Reich Ranicki halten Grass nicht für anti-Semitisch, eher das Gegenteil. Reich-Kanickis erster Eindruck, der Grass zu einer Zeit erlebte als RR noch als Spion in Warschau arbeitete: Bulgarischen Partisan! Ein halb-Kaschube der wohl während seiner Jugend besonders Deutsch sein wollte wie so viele aus den Grenzgebieten. Er könnte trotzdem unbewusste Ressentiment geladene Vorurteile hegen. Dazu müsste man sich länger mit ihm unterhalten. Aber Reflex-artig “anti-Semitismus” schreien sowie Kritik an Israel-Netanjahu geübt wird, eben dieses fördert dann Anti-Semitismus!

Was sind die Gründe für Anti-Semitimus außer das scheinbar Menschen Minderheiten leicht verteufeln, immer einen Teufel haben müssen... also außer dem so-genannten ewig “all zu Menschlichen.” Erstens eigentlich eine Geschichte die der des Zwist zwischen den Sunnis und Shiiten ähnelt. Ein Kind wurde angeblich getoetet, das Christkind, so hört man vielleicht heute noch in Kärnten die Priester. [2] Neid. [3] Dass sie eben nicht goyem sind! Dass sie einfach anders sind, en gros und auch im kleinen, bis man sie kennenlernt! Und dann entpuppen sie sich als genau so grässlich wie man selbst ist. [4] Dass sie was von Geld verstehen – ich finde dass die Schotten das auch tun. Also Neid. [5] Wie schon oben angedeutet – dis Brit Milah, die Beschneidung da als Kastrationsangst erfahren wird, als Wunde des Zivilisierten. Man sollte ihnen nicht eine solchen echten Grund für ihre Anti-Semitismus liefern!

Was Jüdisch in mir ist identifiziert sich nicht mit der Netanjahu/
Liebermann Regierung, so wenig wie mit der Masse Jüdischer Neo-Cons
"Wolfie & Co" die die Spitze des Amerikanischen Imperialismus ausmachen, einer von diesen, Herr Joffe, habe ich hier selbst erlebt wie er sich anbiedert, und der dann besonders scharf gegen Grass und das Koelner Gerichtsverbot in dem Wall Street Journal wetterte. 
 
25 Jahre lang  säkular hauptsächlich Jüdisch-Amerikanisch
gelebt in der New Yorker Verlagswelt.... aus der Erfahrung koennte ich nicht sagen was die Juden als Juden gemeinsam haetten, ausser was man als "sensibility"
bezeichnet, und was ich hier in Nordwesten des Landes als "zu wenige Juden" geistig schmerzhaft als Abwesenheit empfunnden. Ich brauch sie kaum von der geistigen Hoehenleistungen der Jewish-Amerikanischen Literatur zu ueberzeugen, aber als Lektor dann auch Bekanntschaft mit was hier "the Jewish mob" genannt wird [lesen sie mal Robert Kalich’s The Handicapper!], also die Hoehen und die Tiefen, aber die gibt es bei allen ethnischen Gruppen in New York. New York has a real “heart of darkness”! And it sits ineradicably also in the huge bureaucracy of the city, has for centuries now. You can’t ask a cab driver for it, as little as you can for “the Jewish mob”, for the “Italian mob” the cabbie might have had at least an idea. 

Ich lese in der Jüdischen Allgemeinen, dass man dort sich was überlegt. Ich wünsche mir, dass diese Überlegungen sich zu dem Entschluss kommmen, sich bei den Deutschen Regierenden für ihre Zuvorkommenheit zu bedanken, und dass die Jüdische Gemeinde Deutschlands sich entscheidet, das Grundgesetz anzunehmen des allgemeinen Frieden
und des Liebe zum Deutschen Volk willens. Ansonsten, sollte man nicht ausser Acht lassen dass 75 % des  Volkes gegen die Beschneidung ist - und en gros nicht aus Anti-Semitismus oder Abrahamismus.
Dieser Entschluss würde
viel beitragen zu einem menschlicheren und ehrlicheren Verhaeltnis und ich glaube einer ungeheueren Erleichterung und echtem Zuvorkommen, ich Trottel denk so was.
Yours very truly,
Michael Roloff


==============================


  It is not called the 'Partial Declaration of Human Rights'. It is not the 'Sometimes Declaration of Human Rights'. It is the Universal Declaration, guaranteeing all human beings their basic human rights - without exception. Ban Ki-moon, U.N. Secretary General, December 2010

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child says that a child has a right to not be mutilated[14]. The U.S. Constitution[15] declares that a child has a right to security and property (we can assume that a person's body parts are his or her own property). The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act declares that all infants are considered persons under federal law[16]. Female genital mutilation is already banned under US federal law[17]. Torture is prohibited by Article 5 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the United Nations Convention Against Torture[18]. 


Torture is defined as the practice or act of deliberately inflicting severe physical pain on a person [21]. As noted, circumcision meets this criteria. 

What we do over 60 percent[19] of male infants in the U.S. would be illegal to do to a terrorist. If Osama bin Laden had been caught alive, it would be impermissible under the Geneva Convention to do to him what we do to our newborns. 
 









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MICHAEL ROLOFF http://www.facebook.com/mike.roloff1?ref=name Member Seattle Psychoanalytic Institute and Society this LYNX will LEAP you to all my HANDKE project sites and BLOGS: http://www.roloff.freehosting.net/index.html "MAY THE FOGGY DEW BEDIAMONDIZE YOUR HOOSPRINGS!" {J. Joyce} "Sryde Lyde Myde Vorworde Vorhorde Vorborde" [von Alvensleben] contact via my website http://www.roloff.freehosting.net/index.html